debate Archives - The Freethinker https://freethinker.co.uk/tag/debate/ The magazine of freethought, open enquiry and irreverence Thu, 25 Jul 2024 14:45:59 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 https://freethinker.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/cropped-The_Freethinker_head-512x512-1-32x32.png debate Archives - The Freethinker https://freethinker.co.uk/tag/debate/ 32 32 1515109 Jihad by Word #4: The Satan paradox; or, Putting the Muslim genie back in the bottle https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/07/jihad-by-word-4-the-satan-paradox-putting-the-muslim-genie-back-in-the-bottle/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=jihad-by-word-4-the-satan-paradox-putting-the-muslim-genie-back-in-the-bottle https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/07/jihad-by-word-4-the-satan-paradox-putting-the-muslim-genie-back-in-the-bottle/#respond Fri, 26 Jul 2024 05:23:00 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=14302 Jihad by Word is a semi-regular series from Jalal Tagreeb in which he relates how, through being exposed…

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Jihad by Word is a semi-regular series from Jalal Tagreeb in which he relates how, through being exposed to the flaws in Islamic apologetics during debates with nonbelievers, he left Islam and became a freethinker.

This final instalment is published on the author’s birthday as a gift to the secularists who helped him free himself from Islam—leading, in essence, to his rebirth as a freethinker. The introduction to and first instalment of the series can be found here and other instalments in the series can be found here.

Painting from a Herat manuscript of the Persian rendition by Bal’ami of the Annals/Tarikh (universal chronicle) of al-Tabari, depicting angels honouring Adam, except Iblis (on the left), who refuses. Held at the Topkapi Palace Museum Library. C. 1415.

One day in November 2023, some Muslim friends of mine from the Far East asked that I lead the group in the Maghrib prayer (one of the five mandatory daily prayers in Islam). Far Eastern Muslims value Arab Muslims as being linked to the birthplace of Islam, plus one of my ancestors was a famous companion of the Prophet Muhammad. I tried to make excuses to get out of it, but they insisted, so I went ahead and led the prayer. Little did my friends know that by that time I was an ex-Muslim. After my defeats by secularists in numerous debates, I had turned my back on Islam. They were being led in prayer by an apostate who had devoted himself to refuting and defeating Islam!

When I returned home, I apologised to Satan (known as Iblis in Islam) for obeying Allah’s will, but he told me: ‘Do not worry, my friend, I will not punish you by putting you in hell forever, I am not Allah! It suffices to do your freethinker homework.’ I could not resist thanking the almighty Satan and I obeyed His command. That night, I did my homework, studying with secularists all the flaws in Islamic apologetics.

In his book, Allah tells Satan: ‘[Y]ou will certainly have no authority over My servants, except the deviant who follow you’. (Quran 15:42.) Allah seems to have control over some servants, but not over everyone. At least Satan does not make claims that He cannot fulfil…

Of course, I don’t mean that I believe in Satan/Iblis literally. But the disobedient Satan figure is a potent symbol for me, epitomising my own journey away from prostration to Allah towards freedom and independence.

Muslim scholars and apologists claim that during Ramadan, all the devils are chained. Yet I and other freethinkers have joyfully engaged in counter-apologetics during the last two Ramadans. We served Satan during the holiest Muslim month, so it would seem that Satan is not chained after all. Subhan Iblis! He is the greatest, indeed. And He never called us ‘servants’.

The Satan of Islamic theology is not just a personal symbol. He is a paradoxical figure who highlights the inconsistencies and contradictions inherent in religious belief. Satan was a key aspect of my journey away from faith. The story of Satan’s refusal to bow to Adam, as described in the Quran, raises profound questions about the nature of God’s commands and Satan’s role in the narrative. Satan, created from fire, refused to prostrate before Adam, who was made from clay, arguing that He was superior. This act of defiance resulted in His expulsion from Paradise.

Yet, one might ask: Why did Allah create something that could argue with him and cause trouble in the first place? Satan’s refusal can be seen as an act of courage. Ironically, it is also consistent with the divine command to worship none but Allah: if all creatures are to bow only to Allah, then Satan’s refusal to bow to Adam could be interpreted as an act of fidelity to this principle, albeit one that defies Allah’s direct command.

Moreover, the Quran verse cited above suggests a limit to Allah’s power: Satan is granted authority over some of humanity. This raises further questions about the nature of divine power and the existence of free will. If Allah is truly omnipotent, why grant Satan any power at all?

The paradoxical nature of Satan’s role, combined with the theological inconsistencies surrounding his creation and actions, challenges the coherence of Islam’s theistic belief system. The Quranic narrative reveals contradictions in the divine attributes of omnipotence and omnibenevolence and highlights the problematic nature of theological doctrines that fail to align with observable reality.

This was just one of the many Satanic verses I encountered which shook my faith in Allah. Satan, paradoxically, led me to nonbelief. As for the existence of Allah more generally, I recommend Edgar Morina’s book Disproving Islam, which provides many excellent scientific arguments against the existence of Allah.

My complete loss of faith was not an overnight event but a gradual process of disillusionment. It involved countless hours of introspection, reading, and engagement with ideas that I had previously dismissed. Even as I continued to defend Islam in debates with secularists, I began to feel empty inside. I was like a hot air balloon: I seemed big and confident, but I was easily popped. This made it look to my opponents as if I just suddenly crashed out of Islam, but the truth is more complex.

The final admission of my defeat was both liberating and deeply humbling. It was an acknowledgement of my intellectual defeat and a surrender to the reality I had long resisted. It was a decisive defeat of Jihad by Word. Nowadays, with digital tools allowing people to document and share information efficiently and systematically, Islam simply cannot keep up. There can be no more tricks. Everything is well documented. Though the defeat of Islam will take time to fully play out, secularists have essentially already won. They have returned the Muslim genie to the bottle and locked it there forever. How long it takes Muslims to realise their intellectual defeat is, however, another matter entirely.

Jalal’s ‘statement of defeat’ by secularists in debate can be found here.

Related reading

The need to rekindle irreverence for Islam in Muslim thought, by Kunwar Khuldune Shahid

The price of criticising Islam in northern Nigeria: imprisonment or death, by Emma Park

My journey from blindness to rationality: how English literature saved me, by Sonia Nigar

Rushdie’s victory, by Daniel James Sharp

Surviving Ramadan: An ex-Muslim’s journey in Pakistan’s religious landscape, by Azad

From religious orthodoxy to free thought, by Tehreem Azeem

Breaking the silence: Pakistani ex-Muslims find a voice on social media, by Tehreem Azeem

Britain’s liberal imam: Interview with Taj Hargey, by Emma Park

The Satanic Verses; free speech in the Freethinker, by Emma Park

How I lost my religious belief: A personal story from Nigeria, by Suyum Audu

Why I am no longer a Hindu, by Amrita Ghosh

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Image of the week: ‘Pigeonholes’ by Polyp (Paul Fitzgerald) https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/07/image-of-the-week-pigeonholes-by-polyp-paul-fitzgerald/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=image-of-the-week-pigeonholes-by-polyp-paul-fitzgerald https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/07/image-of-the-week-pigeonholes-by-polyp-paul-fitzgerald/#respond Tue, 09 Jul 2024 02:42:00 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=14042 The post Image of the week: ‘Pigeonholes’ by Polyp (Paul Fitzgerald) appeared first on The Freethinker.

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‘PigeonHoles’, by Polyp (paul fitzgerald).

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Jihad by Word #2: how I could not defend jizyah https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/07/jihad-by-word-2-how-i-could-not-defend-jizyah/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=jihad-by-word-2-how-i-could-not-defend-jizyah https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/07/jihad-by-word-2-how-i-could-not-defend-jizyah/#respond Sun, 07 Jul 2024 06:32:00 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=14034 To celebrate the beginning of the Islamic new year, here is the second Jihad by Word instalment. Jihad…

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To celebrate the beginning of the Islamic new year, here is the second Jihad by Word instalment. Jihad by Word is a semi-regular series from Jalal Tagreeb in which he relates how, through being exposed to the flaws in Islamic apologetics during debates with nonbelievers, he left Islam and became a freethinker. The introduction to and first instalment of the series can be found here and other instalments in the series can be found here.

Present-day building of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, Jerusalem. it is said that in the 7th century, Caliph umar ibn al-khattab, despite being invited to do so, did not pray inside the church (then called the church of the resurrection) so as not to establish a precedent which might threaten the church’s Christian status. image: Wayne McLean. CC BY 2.0.

When I was preparing to become a Muslim scholar, one of the arguments I focused on countering was the argument that dhimmis—nonbelievers with legal protections in an Islamic state—were humiliated by Muslims. By addressing this, I aimed to show that Islam is a religion of peace. I believed I could win this debate despite its difficulty.

However, my argument was debunked. Below is my defence of jizyah and a summary of a debate I had with a secularist, where I was defeated using logic and Islamic sources.

My defence of jizyah

Jizyah was a tax paid by dhimmis in Islamic states (not to be confused with zakat, a tax paid by Muslims only). The jizyah rate varied based on the financial status of the dhimmi. Roughly speaking:

A. The richest dhimmis paid four dinars (gold coins).

B. Moderately wealthy dhimmis paid 20 dirhams of silver.

C. Those unable to pay did not pay anything.

This shows that the levying of jizyah was not intended to humiliate dhimmis: it was a fairly administered tax. Quran verse 9:29 indicates that only those capable of paying should do so. Though zakat was generally lower, jizyah still differentiated between dhimmis with different incomes. This fiscal system was fair, especially in an era with minimal tolerance for different faiths.

There were various valid justifications for jizyah:

1. The Islamic state uses zakat and jizyah payments for services, like security, benefiting all residents.

2. The extra amount of jizyah compared to zakat compensates for the dhimmis’ freedom to practice their faith. Countries today legitimately use citizenship rules to define rights and relationships among citizens, refugees, and immigrants.

3. The gradual increase in payment is based on financial capability, with the rich paying more and the poor paying nothing.

Do these not strike you as fair points?

Additionally, Islamic history shows that the Prophet forgave his enemies, so why would he humiliate dhimmis? Here, for example, is one of the authentic hadiths:

‘Al-Qasim ibn Salam reported: When his enemies came to the Ka’bah, they were holding onto its door and the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “What do you say? What do you think?” They said three times, “We say you are the son of our brother.” The Prophet said, “I say to you as Joseph said to his brothers: No blame upon you today. Allah will forgive you, for he is the most merciful of the merciful.” In another narration, the Prophet said to them, “Go, you are free.”’

Another example of Islamic mercy is Umar’s Assurance, a document written by Caliph Umar ibn Al-Khattab to the people of the recently captured Jerusalem in AD 637 or 638. This assurance guaranteed the safety of Christian churches and property, and it is said that the Caliph, despite being invited to do so, did not pray inside the Church of the Resurrection so as not to establish a precedent which might threaten the church’s Christian status.

The medieval Muslim scholar Imam Ibn Al-Qayyim, in his book Ahkām ahl al-dhimma, provided copious evidence that the humiliation of nonbelievers was not intended in Islamic states and that dhimmis were well treated (see, for example, his interpretations of Quran 9:29 and Umar’s Assurance). 

Further, the Encyclopedia Britannica tells us that:

‘During the Prophet Muhammad’s lifetime, the jizyah was not imposed on non-Muslim tribes consistently. For example, the Nubians of North Africa, despite being non-Muslim, were exempted; instead they entered into a trade agreement (baqt) with Muslims.

In the period following Muhammad’s death, the jizyah was levied on non-Muslim Arab tribes in lieu of military service. Performance of military service earned an exemption; for example, under the second caliph, ʿUmar ibn al-Khaṭṭāb, the Jarājimah tribe was exempted when it agreed to serve in the army. The non-Muslim poor, the elderly, women, serfs, religious functionaries, and the mentally ill generally did not pay any taxes. Early sources state that under the first caliphs poor Christians and Jews were instead awarded stipends from the state treasury, which was funded largely by monies derived from the zakat, the obligatory tax paid by Muslim men and women of financial means, and from the jizyah paid by non-Muslim men of means.’

The principles instilled by the Prophet and Umar can still be felt today in regions where dhimmis and Muslims live in peace and mutual respect. In short: jizyah was a legitimate tax administered fairly and Islamic principles allowed for peaceful coexistence between believers and nonbelievers.

The debate

Such was my case for the defence when I engaged in a debate with a secularist on the issue.

My opponent questioned the three levels of jizyah I mentioned and the context around ‘humiliation’ in its payment. He argued that the terms used in Quran 9:29 imply subjugation and belittlement and questioned the validity of my interpretation of the verse.

I emphasised the importance of consulting the original Arabic text, explaining that ‘عن يد’ (ean yad) translates roughly to ‘out of hand’, or ‘those who can pay’, indicating flexibility in payment, not humiliation, and noted that many interpreters assert that the verse speaks of commitment rather than degradation. My opponent remained sceptical, insisting that ‘صاغرون’ (saghirun; roughly, ‘slavish’) implies humiliation and that the verse pertains to conquering non-Muslim lands.

The debate shifted to the concept of dhimmitude, the protected status of non-Muslims under Islamic governance. I clarified that ‘dhimmi’ means ‘protected person’ and that dhimmis’ feelings of subjugation stemmed from their having to live under Islamic law in general, not from any particular mistreatment. My opponent countered with examples from the time of Umar’s Assurance, highlighting restrictions imposed on Christians and arguing that these were humiliating. He pointedly asked if Muslims would find similar rules degrading.

I pointed out that the authenticity of Umar’s Assurance is debated, with some attributing it to later jurists rather than the Caliph himself. My opponent argued that the legitimacy of Islamic laws does not rest solely on the character of political leaders but on the consensus of jurists.

I asserted that true Islamic law is derived from the Quran and authentic hadith. My opponent questioned who determines the proper understanding of these texts, noting that scholars diverge widely in their views. I mentioned that consensus among scholars is crucial but acknowledged that different groups might have their own consensus. He cited legal manuals from various schools of Islamic jurisprudence, all of which included humiliating conditions for dhimmis, reinforcing his point that such practices are integral to Islamic law.

My opponent maintained that Islamic legal texts mandate even the poor to pay jizyah and that the humiliation is inherent in the laws themselves.

I argued that the Quran should be the primary source of Islamic law, and it contains no explicit command to humiliate dhimmis. My opponent pointed out that Islamic jurisprudence combines Quranic text, hadith, and juristic consensus, and that these have long produced discriminatory laws. He quoted various scholars and legal manuals to prove that systemic humiliation is part of established Islamic law, showing that my argument was insufficient against historical consensus.

To counter, I cited Ibn al-Qayyim’s work, which denies historical evidence for such humiliations in jizyah collection. Ibn al-Qayyim interprets the dhimmis’ feelings of being low or sad as arising from a feeling akin to paying taxes one disagrees with rather than stemming from discrimination and humiliation. My opponent remained unconvinced, emphasising that the majority consensus among jurists includes humiliating conditions and cannot be dismissed by a single scholar’s opinion.

Towards the end of the debate, I acknowledged the diversity of interpretations and the rigorous methods scholars use to authenticate hadith and derive legal rulings. My opponent insisted that the established body of Islamic law, including its dhimmi-humiliating aspects, is backed by centuries of juristic consensus and cannot be easily refuted. Despite my attempts to present a more humane and flexible understanding of jizyah, my opponent’s extensive citations from legal texts and historical practices ultimately made a compelling case for the systemic nature of these conditions, highlighting the challenge of reconciling ideal Islamic principles with historical jurisprudence.

I have now accepted my full and decisive defeat in this debate and my inability to defend the Islamic argument.


As a penance for this and many other defeats in debate, I have now shaved my beard and abandoned Islam. I have also paid my own form of jizyah to secular societies—a much better use of money, I think! I hope that by sharing these stories of my defeats I can help others to counter Islamic apologetics—and perhaps even help some Muslims to go on the same journey of enlightenment as I have.

Jalal’s ‘statement of defeat’ by secularists in debate can be found here.

Related reading

The need to rekindle irreverence for Islam in Muslim thought, by Kunwar Khuldune Shahid

Artificial intelligence and algorithmic bias on Islam, by Kunwar Khuldune Shahid

When does a religious ideology become a political one? The case of Islam, by Niko Alm

Surviving Ramadan: An ex-Muslim’s journey in Pakistan’s religious landscape, by Azad

From religious orthodoxy to free thought, by Tehreem Azeem

Britain’s liberal imam: Interview with Taj Hargey, by Emma Park

Breaking the silence: Pakistani ex-Muslims find a voice on social media, by Tehreem Azeem

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